”Guns & Butter” interview with Michel Chossudovsky
Global Resarch, November 25, 2015
Bonnie Faulkner : Michel Chossudovsky, welcome.
Michel Chossudovsky : I’m delighted to be on Guns and Butter.
Bonnie Faulkner : On November 13th, 2015 shootings and suicide bombings were staged in five different locales in Paris, the capital of France. One hundred and thirty people were killed. Less than a week after the Paris gun and suicide bomb attacks a group of heavily armed gunmen stormed the Radisson Blu Hotel in Bamako, the capital of Mali, a former French colony, in which 21 people were killed. There have been a string of recent high profile terror attacks, from bombings in Beirut and the downing of a Russian airliner over the Sinai Desert. Where do you think we should begin in trying to address all of these recent terror attacks?
Michel Chossudovsky : I think there’s a fundamental contradiction in the official narrative both of the United States and, of course, of France and its allies. The United States is leading a war on terrorism which is directed against the so-called Islamic State yet the evidence amply confirms that the Islamic State and the various al Qaeda related terrorist organizations are creations of US intelligence. They’re what are called in intelligence parlance “intelligence assets.”
The other dimension, of course, is that in effect Obama is not waging a campaign against the terrorists because these terrorists are in fact the foot soldiers of the Western Military Alliance in Syria and they are in fact protecting the terrorists. This is amply confirmed and it’s come to our attention since the onset of the Russian bombing, and the Russians are going after the real terrorists.
When an occurrence such as that of Paris or Bamako is presented then to the media or the media analyzes these events, what they do is simply copy and paste the official narrative without presenting an understanding of who is actually behind these terrorist organizations. Almost immediately in the wake of the terrorist attacks in Paris the French media went into overdrive stating unequivocally – and that was prior to the conduct even of a police investigation – that the Islamic State was indelibly behind these attacks.
Then the president, François Hollande, ordered by decree a national emergency, the suspension of civil liberties, the right to enter homes and arrest people without a warrant, and at the same time he closed down the borders. Now this, as I recall, was announced a few minutes before midnight on November 13th local time, prior to any consultation with his cabinet colleagues. He actually confirmed that the cabinet meeting was to take place subsequently. In his speech he says, “We know who they are.” Immediately the French media says, “This is a French-style 9/11.” In other words, in French it says “Le 11 Septembre à la Française.” Following from that, the official story prevails.
The official story is based, as I mentioned, with a fundamental contradiction. You can’t on the one hand say you’re the victim of Islamic State when, in fact, you’re the creator of Islamic State. It’s a non sequitur. You cannot say that the attacks – and he was very explicit – the attacks were from outside France, from Syria, originating from Syria. You can’t say that the attacks originated from Syria directed against the French republic and at the same time support covertly these same terrorists. There’s ample evidence that not only the United States and its allies have supported the ISIS and its affiliate groups such as the Libya Islamic Fighting Group – so has France – with weapons, with training, with financing and so on.
That is the situation and what the French public and Western public in general have been led to believe is that these terrorists are involved in crimes against humanity without realizing that, in fact, their intelligence services, which are under the auspices of an elected government, are manipulating these terror organizations, are supporting them, are providing them with weapons.
Bonnie Faulkner : You write that the Islamic State, ISIS, the alleged architect of the Paris attacks, was originally an al Qaeda affiliated entity created by US intelligence with the support of Britain’s MI6, Israel’s Mossad, Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence, ISI, and Saudi Arabia’s General Intelligence Presidency, GIP. You write that, “From the outset of Obama’s bombing campaign in August/September 2014, the US led coalition has not bombed ISIS rebel positions.” Has the US counterterrorism campaign been fake?
Michel Chossudovsky : Well, absolutely. This is a self-proclaimed counterterrorism campaign, But in effect it is there to justify the bombing of a sovereign country in derogation of international law. The United States has been pressuring the government of Bashar al-Assad to step down. They want regime change and they have not been able to achieve that despite four years of intensive terrorist activities, which they sponsor, on the ground. In the last year, we’re talking about the bombing raid, which has lasted for 13 months or more and which is in effect supporting those terrorist entities.
Now, one can say, well, where do you get the information as to who is behind these terrorists? I can tell you that from day one, in March 2011, the terrorists were sent in with the support of the Western Military Alliance. In fact, this was reported in August 2011 by DEBKA, which is an intelligence online media. I’m not saying that I trust DEBKA but they acknowledged very clearly, and it’s corroborated by other reports, that the initiative of the Western Military Alliance was actually launched by NATO. It consisted in setting up a campaign to enlist thousands of Muslim volunteers in Muslim countries, which would then be coordinated by NATO in Brussels and the Turkish high command. That is exactly what has happened.
It took a long time for Western public opinion to actually even realize that the so-called opposition forces against the government of Bashar al-Assad were actually terrorists. Then, when these atrocities were committed they’ll say invariably – and they probably still do – the Western media will accuse Bashar al-Assad of killing his own people.
Well, we have enough information to know that this so-called war on terrorism is fake. The United States and its allies are involved in a criminal undertaking in violation of international law against a sovereign country. It’s geopolitics, it’s economic conquests, and they’re using the war on terrorism as a pretext. Now the bombing campaign is really in response to the fact that government forces in 2014 actually had managed to pacify a large part of Syrian territory and the terrorist pockets had been eliminated, so they initiated the bombing campaign and then they fast-tracked the recruitment and training of terrorists out of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and so on, so forth.
All of this is known and the thing is that the Western media will actually acknowledge the fact that Turkey is responsible for this, that and the other, that Saudi Arabia, we can’t trust them; they’re supporting the terrorists. Qatar’s supporting the terrorists. But, of course, the Western countries are not supporting the terrorists even though their allies are obeying orders. Qatar is not really a country; it’s a proxy state in the Persian Gulf. It obeys orders. There’s a whole series of military and intelligence bases there close to Doha, the capital of Qatar.
Saudi Arabia’s the same. These are countries which are aligned with Washington. They receive military aid. They are told what to do. Historically, going back to the Soviet-Afghan War, we know that Pakistan’s military intelligence, Inter-Services Intelligence, ISI, and its Saudi counterparts were funding this operation, they were recruiting the terrorists. It’s corroborated by Brzezinski and so on so forth. All this is known and the CIA does not deny it. What they say, of course, is that in the wake of the Cold War they ceased their relationship with al Qaeda and then al Qaeda turned against us so to speak.
This is absolute nonsense because I can tell you, for one thing, the actual terrorists continue to be trained in Afghanistan and Pakistan. In fact, the proclaimed architect of the bombing of the hotel in Bamako, Belmokhtar, was recruited by the CIA in 1991. The Soviet-Afghan War was already over, the Cold War was over, and the CIA was continuing to recruit these people.
Who were they recruiting?
They were recruiting potential intelligence assets which could then be deployed in a number of countries – The former Soviet Union, of course the Russian Federation, Chechnya but also in the Middle East. It just so happens that BelMokhtar was trained in Pakistan and Afghanistan by the CIA and then he was sent back in1993 to Algeria. Today he is behind a fraction group of what is called Al Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb, and the operation which was launched in Bamako allegedly was undertaken by his group on the one hand and the broader organization, which is called al Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb, AQIM, which is an affiliate of al Qaeda.
I should mention that AQIM is also very much integrated with the so-called Libya Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), which was supported by NATO during the NATO campaign against Libya in 2011, so that NATO supports the Libya Islamic Fighting Group which in effect has more or less merged with AQIM, the architect of the Bamako bombing, this mythical figure, Belmokhtar is actually trained by the CIA.
There’s CIA all over the place, and they cannot deny because the evidence is so compelling, that the intelligence services of Western countries are supporting the terrorists and at the same time, the governments of Western countries are waging a campaign allegedly against the Islamic State when in fact they’re also supporting the Islamic State. They’re using this as a pretext to bomb a sovereign country resulting in tens of thousands of casualties, a refugee crisis, the destruction of entire cities and so on, during a period of four years.
That is the picture and we don’t need to start engaging in any sort of conspiracy theories to underscore the fact that if the intelligence services of France and the United States are supporting ISIS, and ISIS is designated as the threat to the security of the French nation, there’s an obvious contradiction. Because you can’t support the ISIS and then make a speech at 12 :00 at night – I’m talking about President Hollande – and say, ‘We know who they are, they’re attacking us, they’re killing our people.’ I think to put it mildly, President François Hollande has blood on his hands.
I’m speaking with economist and director of the Centre for Research on Globalization, Michel Chossudovsky. Today’s show, State Terrorism : Franco-American Style. I’m Bonnie Faulkner. This is Guns and Butter.
Bonnie Faulkner : Now, you’ve been referring to the Bamako, Mali attacks, the most recent terror attacks. News media report that the Bamako terror operation was coordinated by Mokhtar Belmokhtar, whom you have mentioned. What do you think is the significance of the Bamako attacks? And were the Mali attacks, in Bamako, related to the Paris terror? For instance, what was France’s role in the Libyan war and the takedown of Muammar Gaddafi? Is this all related?
Michel Chossudovsky : Let me put it this way. Both the Paris attacks as well as the Bamako attacks have geopolitical implications. First, with regard to Paris it’s worth noting that one week before these attacks occurred the Hollande government had ordered the deployment of the Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier group to the eastern Mediterranean and this was in support of the alleged campaign against terrorism in Syria. Even before these attacks occurred they’d already been preparing to send this powerful navy and air force deployment to the Middle East in support of Obama’s campaign against the ISIS.
In the wake of the Paris attacks, as we recall, the French air force went in and bombed the alleged headquarters of ISIS. The official declaration from the Ministry of Defence was that they had actually targeted the command posts. We got information from Syria that, in fact, what they targeted were health clinics, a museum and the stadium; in other words, the country’s civilian infrastructure. That has been persistent throughout the last year, since the United States started to bomb Syria.
Now, with regard to Bamako, the geopolitical agenda is essentially to create a pretext and a justification for the intervention of France and the United States in Sub-Saharan Africa. They would be directing their actions allegedly, of course, against terror organizations which threaten the partner governments in Africa – which is nonsensical because they control those terror organizations, whether it’s Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb or Boko Haram in Nigeria or the Libya Islamic Fighting Group. All these organizations are “intelligence assets” and they’re being used to destabilize sovereign countries.
The Bamako attacks will no doubt also be used by France, by the United States to in a sense re-colonize Africa in terms of militarization of the entire continent, the control of the resources, the destabilization of post-colonial society, etc., which they’re doing through various mechanisms. I suspect that the geopolitics underlying the Bamako terror attack is the militarization of Africa. I should mention that USAFRICOM also sent in a contingent into Mali to assist the French and Malian special forces, which stormed the hotel. US Africa Command is the key to this militarization of Africa.
I should mention that François Hollande is in fact a US proxy. He acts on behalf of Washington. He has absolutely no concern in actually protecting the French spheres of influence in West Africa, for instance. The alliance with the United States – and it’s a subordinate alliance; France is a subordinate to Washington – is in fact to pave the way towards the US colonization of the African continent, which historically, as we recall, was really colonized by the Europeans. In the late 19th century they had a conference called the Berlin Conference where they carved up Africa into different sections and then divided the continent, but America was not included in that process.
Now what we see emerging is in fact the displacement of the former colonial powers in Africa. Portugal has already gone and so has Spain and so has Belgium, and France is ultimately being displaced by the United States. Francophone countries are becoming Americanized. The dollar will eventually replace the CFA franc, which is a proxy currency linked to the French treasury but tied into the euro.
I think that is the scenario. It’s the conquest of the African continent, which is supported by the self-proclaimed mandate of the Obama administration to go after the terrorists in Sub-Saharan Africa, Boko Haram, AQIM and so on. They’re doing that in all the various areas where they want to extend their zone of influence.
Of course, in Southeast Asia you have the Jamiya Islami (JI) in Indonesia and Malaysia, and then you’ve got of course various other jihadist organizations in the western part of China which are involved, again, in insurgencies and they’re also supported by Western intelligence via Pakistan’s ISI.
Bonnie Faulkner : It sounds like the United States and France are working very closely together and there is then evidence that French military escalation directed against Syria was planned before the November 13th terrorist attacks. What evidence is there, if any, of official foreknowledge of the Paris terror itself?
Michel Chossudovsky : You’re absolutely right . France has been participating in the bombing raids right from the outset. Ironically, they operate out of the United Arab Emirates, which in fact hosts the terrorist organizations or trains them and so on.
With regard to foreknowledge, I don’t want to necessarily tackle it in those terms but there were certain events which I considered revealing. The fact that about a month and a half before the Paris attacks, there was an article in Paris Match, which is a tabloid, a magazine which is widely read and very authoritative. In this Paris Match report it was stated that within a short period of time there would be an attack. They used the term “9/11 French-style,” “La 11 septembre à la française.” That was, in fact, the title of the article.
The Paris Match on October 2nd predicted a French-style 9/11. They said that the attacks on France will be on a scale comparable to 9/11. They also said that intelligence services fear a 9/11 French-style. Then you ask yourself, what was the purpose of this media report? Is it media disinformation? Is it there to create a hype or create an atmosphere of fear and intimidation prior to the actual events?
Ironically, when the events occurred, the media was actually simply restating what had been said about a month and a half ago. They said ‘this is a terrorist attack similar to 9/11.’ They also pointed immediately, without any evidence, to the fact that these attacks came from Syria. Then, of course, as we recall, subsequently a few days later the French president, after having declared a national emergency, stated “this is an act of war against us” despite the fact that this is not an act of war; it’s simply an event. It’s a terror event, not an act of war. But he said it’s an act of war because we’re being attacked by a foreign power, and that foreign power is allegedly in northern Syria somewhere in Raqqa.
It just so happens that we support these terrorists, but we have to invoke, in a sense, the fact that we’re being attacked from outside so that then we can also then claim with our coalition partners in NATO and the European Union the doctrine of collective security. That’s Article 5 of NATO, which says that an attack against one member of NATO is an attack against all members of NATO. That’s what they invoked on September 12, 2001 in the wake of 9/11, saying that it was an attack against the United States from abroad – although we didn’t witness any Afghani planes in the skies of New York.
They’re doing exactly the same. They’re replicating the 9/11 discourse, the fact that this is an attack from a foreign power; it just so happens that that foreign power is in northern Syria somewhere. They’re using this as a pretext to escalate the war against Syria, not against their proxy terrorists in Raqqa, and to justify a new wave of bombing by coalition forces. I think that is ultimately the agenda.
I’m speaking with economist and director of the Centre for Research on Globalization, Michel Chossudovsky. Today’s show, State Terrorism : Franco-American Style. I’m Bonnie Faulkner. This is Guns and Butter.
Michel Chossudovsky : Then they have to confront Russia, because Russia is going after the real terrorist. I think that one of the dimensions of this particular Paris attack is that they need now a mechanism or a pretext to undermine Russia’s endeavors, which consists essentially in destroying the foot soldiers of the Western Military Alliance, who are the terrorists – these various entities, which are supported covertly by the CIA, by MI6, by Mossad, and which are integrated by special forces in permanent liaison with the Western Military Alliance. These foot soldiers have their commanders and those commanders also liaise with NATO and the United States.
The fact is that Israel is also behind the terrorists and we don’t even need to speculate on that. They’ve actually said that they have a facility in the Golan Heights. They’re bringing wounded terrorists from Syria into the Golan Heights, with hospital facilities. They have Israeli advisors within the terrorist formations and so on. We have photo ops again of Netanyahu with terrorist commanders being given hospital treatment in the Golan Heights.
The issue is that what we’re discussing here will not be given coverage in the mainstream media and the public is drowned with a humanitarian discourse. Innocent people are being killed and it’s those events where terrorists attack innocent people which ultimately create within everybody this feeling of solidarity, this feeling of fear as well. Ultimately, when people die we feel it.
Then what we do is we side with the government. That’s what they’re doing. Everybody’s siding with the French government. Even people who hate François Hollande are siding with the French government because the French government is there to protect them and they are shocked and concerned about the loss of life.
That concept or that procedure there is well entrenched, in fact, in US military doctrine. I should remind listeners of what was called Operation Northwoods. It was during the Kennedy administration. It was a secret plan by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to start killing people in the Miami Cuban community as well as in Washington with a view to justifying a war of retribution against Cuba. I quote from the official document. They said, we kill people in Miami and that creates “a useful wave of indignation” – indignation of US public opinion, which is a normal thing. Everybody has indignation when people are killed.